To:    Guardian CiF
Re:     How can race not matter, when it relates so profoundly to our own ancestral origins?
Date: Monday 19 February 07"

In response to the Guardian article, "Black out" by Ewen MacAskill on whether or not Barack Obama is "too black or not black enough" to become the next US president.

Link to article and thread at The Guardian.
 

It seems to me that most of us are strongly influenced by our own and other people's ethnicity, yet loath to admit it, for fear of being accused of "racism" - an over-reaction to the insanity and horrors of Nazi racial doctrines. We deceive others (and perhaps even ourselves) into believing that race means nothing to us.

But how can that be, when it relates so profoundly to our own ancestral origins and the history and culture associated with them?

 
2nd Post
 
"I'm afraid "race" as an idea has no credibility, and anyone silly enough to believe this stuff deserves all of the derision they are likely to receive."

With statements like the above, from [JohnR], it is difficult, if not impossible, to discuss this topic with any honesty, because in order to avoid "derision" (or the accusation of being a "racist") we all have to pretend that race doesn't or shouldn't matter.

Most ethnic Europeans, I believe, are still under shock from what the Nazis (the most European of Europeans!) did and from the insane racial doctrines on which they based their crimes. Then there were America's racist segregation laws and South African apartheid. So that now we are terrified of giving any significance to race at all, least it put us on a slippery slope back to Auschwitz, or lead to the reintroduction of such unjust and inhumane social systems as apartheid.

And yet, race IS important. Perhaps not to everyone (although I find it hard to believe that anyone can be completely indifferent to their ancestry and thus their race or racial mix), but to most people, if they are HONEST about it. Certainly it is central to my own sense of identity ().

And it is the importance of race for our sense of identity which makes it so problematic, when our sense of identity is SUPPOSED to be determined predominately by our "nationality". Admitting to the importance of race would undermine the power structures of the nation state, which is another, perhaps even more powerful, reason why it is taboo.

Personally, I do not think that either reason for denying the importance of race are healthy, not least because it results in us suppressing our true feelings into the subconscious, where they are much more dangerous than out in the open, where we can learn to deal with them in a humane and civilized fashion.

 
3rd Post
 
[JohnR], To maintain that "race as a concept has no intellectual substance", I would argue, "is not a rational argument". There are many different concepts of race: some rational, some irrational, some useful, some abhorrent. But to say that the concept of race (or the reality behind it, whatever that is) has "no substance" is just nonsense.

Certainly, if I were an American, I would vote for the candidate I thought best (i.e. least bad) for the job, but for me to maintain that their ethnicity would not influence me at all would be dishonest. All other things being equal, given the choice, I would vote for the candidate that I also shared ethnicity with, as I'm pretty sure, most other people would too (except certain leftwing "progressives", of course, who would vote for the black candidate as a matter of ideological principle, regardless of his or her merits).

I take back, by the way, what I wrote about the Nazis being "the most European of Europeans". That is not true. I just wanted to emphasis the fact that they WERE Europeans, which is why, I believe, so many white people, are still under shock from what they did and how they rationalized and justified it. It threatens to undermine the rosy-eyed view we have of our ourselves of being so "advanced", "developed" "civilized" and "progressive". By distancing ourselves so adamantly from them we seek to avoid any introspection that might cause some self-doubt as we continue to go our self(in respect to race)- depreciating but individually self-righteous way.

 
4th Post
 
"Now we are all Africans (Homo sapiens) and belong to the same race: the human race".

What you are saying, [IsabelG] is that there is no such thing as race. Under certain circumstances that is a good, and necessary, sentiment to have and cultivate, but all the evidence, including the above article and this thread, suggests the opposite is true.

Homo sapiens is a "species", which developed into a number of different populations that we generally (sometime more, sometimes less specifically) refer to as races. This is surely of some scientific interest (recently it has gained considerable medical and forensic interest), but by far its greatest importance is that many people (I would think most, if not virtually all, if they are honest about it) tend to identify with their own particular population (i.e. their own ancestors). If you are in the company of people of different race, this may not be something you will want to emphasis, but it shouldn't be something you feel obliged to deny the existence of.

What you are saying reminds me of the communist ideal of everyone giving to society according to their ability and taking according to their needs. It's a great ideal (which in small groups can actually work), but in society at large it breaks down, mainly due to human nature being what it is. And we need to work WITH human nature, not against it, or by SUPPRESSING it, for the reasons I gave in my previous post.

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